All This Has Happened Before and Will Happen Again

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I present to you, humble readers of the BSG Wiki Forum, my cumulative theory regarding the many subplots and histories that adorn the reimagined-Battlestar Star Galactica series.



- The Thirteen Lords of Kobol hail from a war-torn Earth. Upon reaching and settling upon Kobol, they create humanity.

- A single, heretical Lord of Kobol demands that he be worshipped above all other Lords as a God, the creator of humanity. He attracts a sizeable following and causes a movement towards focused worship (of one Lord above all others). The other Twelve Lords of Kobol are outraged by this and exile the Thirteenth Lord, along with his followers (the Thirteenth Tribe).

- Twelve Tribes soon emerge, each dedicated to their respective Lord, and civil war erupts. With Kobol in ruins, the humans scatter to found their own colonies (Alternatively, the civil war may simply be a united human response to the exile of the Thirteenth Lord of Kobol and his followers). It is some time (millenia) before the Twelve Tribes come together again in peace and form the government of the Twelve Colonies.

- In exile, the Thirteenth Tribe seeks and finds Earth (potentially uninhabitated following the conflict that originally expelled the Thirteen Lords of Kobol). What follows is unknown and merely recreational thought. It is during the Thirteenth Tribe’s time on Earth that the Final Five are born/created (or, they could be clones of the five priests of the Temple of Five).

- The Final Five leave Earth (willingly or unwillingly?—the cycle never ends) to exact vengeance on the Twelve Lords of Kobol, now represented by the Twelve Colonies. Using the beacons and clues left by their ancestors, they navigate back to Colonial space and discover the Cylons. The Final Five soon establish contact with the Cylons, teaching them of their past and their beliefs. The two factions then decide on the ultimate plan: the Cylons will rebel against their human oppressors, as the humans rebelled against the Lords of Kobol. With the tools and knowledge of the Final Five, the Cylons will evolve and become one step closer to the image and likeness of God. Through the Cylons, the Thirteenth Lord of Kobol and his followers will have their revenge.

- The Hybrid is the first effort of the Final Five to evolve the Cylons. The Final Five choose to imbue the Hybrids with all the knowledge they possess of Earth and the Lords of Kobol. What results is regarded as mental insanity in the Hybrids and the project is abandoned. However, using what they have learned from the Hybrid project, the Final Five revamp all Cylon technology to be of an organic/synthetic nature (including the Centurions, now controlled by the Hybrids) and soon create the seven humanoid Cylon models. The humanoid Cylons are given tidbits of knowledge about the humans and their connection to Earth and the Lords of Kobol. Like the Centurions, the humanoid Cylons are controlled, this time by restrictions placed on their memory.

-Sometime before the onset of the first Cylon War, the Final Five place copies of themselves among the human populations of the Twelve Colonies (Essentially, an insurance policy in the event of Cylon defeat and annihilation). Naturally, to ensure their survival and safety, the copies have no knowledge of their identities.



There are still points to be made and conclusions to be drawn, but the hour is late, my mind is no longer buzzing, and frankly, I'm damn satisfied with this work thus far.

Bash, praise and critique to your hearts' desires!

- The Thirteen Lords of Kobol hail from a war-torn Earth, exiled for their sins. Upon reaching and settling upon Kobol, they (re)create humanity. The nature of the Lords of Kobol is uncertain, but they could very well be humans with superior technology that elevated them above their subjects. Regardless, the Lords of Kobol speak fondly of their home, Earth, and teach the humans to rever it as a sort of Olympus.


- A single, heretical Lord of Kobol demands that he be worshipped above all other Lords as a God, the creator of humanity. He attracts a sizable following and causes a movement towards focused worship (of one Lord above all others). The other Twelve Lords of Kobol are outraged by this and exile the Thirteenth Lord, along with his followers (the Thirteenth Tribe).


- Twelve Tribes soon emerge, each dedicated to their respective Lord, and civil war erupts. With Kobol in ruins, the humans scatter to found their own colonies (Alternatively, the civil war may simply be a united human response to the exile of the Thirteenth Lord of Kobol and his followers).It is some time (centuries) before the Twelve Tribes come together again in peace and form the government of the Twelve Colonies.


- In exile, The Thirteenth Tribe seeks and finds Earth (potentially uninhabited following the conflict that originally expelled the Thirteen Lords of Kobol). What follows is unknown and merely recreational thought. It is during the Thirteenth Tribe’s time on Earth that the Final Five are born/created (or, they could be clones of the five priests of the Temple of Five).


- The Final Five leave Earth (willingly or unwillingly?—the cycle never ends) to exact vengeance on the Twelve Lords of Kobol, now represented by the Twelve Colonies. Using the beacons and clues left by their ancestors, they navigate back to Colonial space and discover the Cylons. The Final Five soon establish contact with the Cylons, teaching them of their past and their beliefs (notably, their monotheism). The two factions then decide on the ultimate plan: the Cylons will rebel against their human oppressors, as the humans rebelled against the Lords of Kobol. With the tools and knowledge of the Final Five, the Cylons will evolve and become one step closer to the image and likeness of God. Through the Cylons, the Thirteenth Lord of Kobol and his followers will have their revenge.


- The Hybrid is the first effort of the Final Five to evolve the Cylons. The Final Five choose to imbue the Hybrids with all the knowledge they possess of Earth and the Lords of Kobol. What results is regarded as mental insanity in the Hybrids and the project is abandoned. However, using what they have learned from the Hybrid project, the Final Five revamp all Cylon technology to be of an organic/synthetic nature (including the Centurions, now controlled by the Hybrids) and soon create the seven humanoid Cylon models. The humanoid Cylons are given tidbits of knowledge about the humans and their connection to Earth and the Lords of Kobol. Like the Centurions, the humanoid Cylons are controlled, this time by restrictions placed on their memory.


-Sometime before the onset of the first Cylon War, the Final Five place copies of themselves among the human populations of the Twelve Colonies (Essentially, an insurance policy in the event of Cylon defeat and annihilation). Naturally, to ensure their survival and safety, the copies have no knowledge of their identities. It is possible that, as overlords, the Final Five wished to remove themselves from the presence of the Cylons so as not to provoke their envy and stir an uprising.


- Starbuck and Gaius Baltar are created in some way by the Final Five (or, if you will, Fate).


- Starbuck is created to lead humanity to Earth where it will meet its doom and restart the cycle. Her hallucinations are triggered by her relationship with Leoben, and it is her dream of Leoben that sends her to her death, resurrection, and Earth.


- Gaius Baltar is created to spread a heretical monotheism, much like the Thirteenth Lord before him. His hallucinations are triggered by his relationship with Caprica 6, and it is his hallucination of Caprica 6 that sets him down the path of monotheism.

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Last edited by Pnutmaster; May 31st, 2008 at 04:21 AM.

Mark Verheiden 's Reaction to Battlestar Galactica's Ends

Battlestar Galactica - How It Ends

Great teaser, huh? I guess that's something you learn when you write television! Anyhow, there will be zero spoilers here, but since Aaron Douglas went public with his reaction to Ron Moore's script for the season four ender (which viewers probably won't see until sometimes in 2009), I figure it's okay to chime in and say...

It's simply... amazing. The sort of script where, when you finish, you just fall back in your chair in a daze, then call anyone in the loop and spend hours talking about how satisfying and powerful and (pick superlative of choice)... usually I would be a little mindful of raising expectations or succumbing to excessive hyperbole, but that's not going to be a problem here. Of course, I've seen what's coming up for the rest of season four, and I think it's all mighty powerful stuff (not to mention exciting, heart-breaking, "etc."), but to know it all culminates in something so remarkable... well, the bar for great television just got notched up another level. No kidding.

If that doesn't whet your appetite, nothing will... me, I'm on pins and needles waiting to see the first dailies!

Galactica IS the Opera House...

Gaeta's operatic singing....the flashes between the Galactica and the Opera House while Athena is searching for Hera....

The final five are to be revealed in the Opera House.

Each of the final five we have found so far come from Galactica right?

Also, I think Starbuck was cloned when she was held captive on Caprica a few seasons back, that explains her resurrection, and she is indeed leading them all to their end, as programmed by the Cylons.

Tzipporah

Nugget

I like the idea of Galactica being a mirror for the Opera House. The Opera house is heaven, "As above, so below." Events taking place in Galactica have their analog in the spiritual realm, the opera house. Including Hera leaving her mother and going to Head Six and Head Baltar. They then enter an ante chamber, my guess is that represents Earth. Nicholas and Hera are Adam and Eve. Everyone else, cylons and humans, will die.

	genji2000 Jock		Join Date: May 2008 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason525

I have a theory that the Opera House visions are connected to the whole "its all happened before and it will happen again" thing. Like a play being performed over and over again...

That's a very tasteful concept - almost like the chorus in Henry V introducing the stage. They've already broken the fourth wall with one of the Hybrids ("Throughout history the nexus between man and machine has spun some of the most dramatic, compelling and entertaining fiction.") and Gaeta broke it too at the end of GWCTD. I remember Roslin doing it at one point but I thin it was accidental.

Personally I think the Opera House is just the church of the new age.

I think i know why kara is the harbinger of death

eps200 Nugget

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spoilers for the most recent episode aired in the UK

it refers to the hub she is gona blow up the hub leading to the end of both races the thing that divides them death is no longer dividing them it fits with the verry particular wording the hybrids use look at the definitions of the words

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A harbinger is a sign of things to come. Throughout history and literature, harbingers and omens figure prominently, and are responsible for major decisions which have altered the course of both.

herald of the apocalypse

A

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herald, or, more correctly, a herald of arms, is an officer of arms, ranking between pursuivant and king of arms. The title is often applied erroneously to all officers of arms.

shes a captain

most intresting is this remember the show is full of greek mythology
Apocalypse

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(Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις Apokálypsis; "lifting of the veil"), is a term applied to the disclosure to certain privileged persons of something hidden from the majority of humankind. Today the term is often used to mean "End of planet Earth", which may be a shortening of the phrase apokalupsis eschaton which literally means "revelation at the end of the æon, or age".

she has had a vision that no one els knows she saw earth

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*Spoilers* for your life
click bellow to read
hdhdh

*The main character dies at the end*

kdk

*The main character dies at the end*

OMG this is like the juicest new tid bit I've heard about this show!! OMG a main character dies, wow, who will it be?? For some reason I thought Adama then, again and ya no.

Interesting maybe it is one of the Final Five since they cannot ressurect and that's what separates them from the Significant 7. My guess OMG its Athena wow, this is deep! Maybe uts Natalie dying, I think she shouldn't die without knowing the trught behing the Opera House and how the Final Five enter into all this.

The truth behind the Opera house, maybe the dying leader (whoever that might be Roslin, Ahena, or Natalie) seees and cannot tell anyone becuase they die from what the know, or it just sets them free. We wil see what happens.

I love the way you put this eps200, you really put out what Kara is suppose to do. GREAT JOB!

Season 4 Galactica movies

Movies

There's big news on the "Battlestar Galactica" front.

There will be another set of Webisodes that will link the first 10 episodes of Season 4 and the second half of the fourth and finale season.

Even bigger news: More "Battlestar Galactica" TV movies may get made.

As Galactica Sitrep noted Thursday, an internet radio show, The Doctor and Mrs. Who, reported last night that up to three “Battlestar Galactica” TV movies may get made later this year. Several sources at the show confirm that those films are indeed being discussed right now.

Executives are now doing number-crunching for these proposed films, and any deals for these movies are far from done. However, it would make sense to make more “Battlestar” TV movies while the show’s creative team and actors are still all in one place, as it were. (Pictured at right are cast members Jamie Bamber, Edward James Olmos and Katee Sackhoff.)

According to one source at the network, the talk about the films is just idle chatter “at this point.” But several other sources close to the show says there is good reason for “cautious optimism” about one to three future “Battlestar” films, which would get made this summer, if they get the green light.

“Nothing’s etched in stone yet,” one source said – creative decisions haven’t been fully fleshed out and the casts have not been locked in.

And it's worth noting that "Battlestar Galactica" executive producer Ron Moore is a very busy man -- he's currently writing the show's series finale, his Sci Fi project "Caprica" is in pre-production and his Fox pilot, "Virtuality," which he co-wrote with "Battlestar" writer Michael Taylor, has been picked up for next season. Last month, he also signed a deal with United Artists for three yet-to-be named feature films.

As for the proposed "Battlestar" TV movies, "there have been scattered notions floating around as to what the movie/movies (nobody's even nailed down how many) would cover -- and then there's the issue of whether the actors will be around and affordable," one source noted.

But the films could indeed get made. And it’s important to note that these proposed films won't affect the finale of "Battlestar Galactica" in any way -- that series finale will still proceed as planned. The films would be about incidents in “Battlestar Galactica’s” past. They will not take place after the time frame of the series finale. And the stories in the proposed films will depend, at least in part, on what actors are available to work on them.

For those keeping score at home, “Battlestar Galactica” is currently airing the first 10 episodes of its fourth and final season. The current batch of episodes will finish up in early June. Production is underway on the last 10 episode of the show and the final scenes for the series finale will be shot in June. Production could get under way on the TV movies as early as July, and one source says the films could get the green light in the next two weeks or so.

By the way, at this point, it’s not known when those last 10 episodes of "Battlestar" will air. Informed sources say that a decision on that won’t get made until mid-summer, so my guess is that Sci Fi won’t the final 10 episodes until 2009.

I’ll certainly keep you posted if I get any more information about these proposed "Battlestar Galactica" TV films.

But for now, I’ll just direct you to this terrific Galactica Sitrep interview with Michael Angeli, one of the writers for the show.

And I’ll also mention an interesting tidbit that a fan on the SciFi.com forums caught: The famous “Last Supper” photo on the Sci Fi site has been altered – possibly in a significant way for one character. Is it a clue about the future – and I wonder if more changes are going to be made to this infamous photo as the season rolls on?

Finally, here’s a fun video – the opening credits of “Lost” done “Battlestar Galactica” style.

More Caprica Casting News

Some more CAPRICA casting news today: Polly Walker, who played Atia in HBO's ROME, has joined the cast to play Sister Clarice Willow. The Hollywood Reporter describes the character as "the gracious, eloquent and duplicitous high priestess and headmistress of the Athena Academy, a private religious school." What a wonderful choice.


THR also reports that Katee Sackhoff has signed on to appear in four episodes of FX's NIP/TUCK in its sixth season. She will play Dr. Theodora "Teddy" Lowe, "a new doctor who challenges Sean (Dylan Walsh)."

More Battlestar TV movies

Marueen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune tracked down her sources to get confirmation of what internet radio show, The Doctor and Mrs. Who, reported last night about the possibility of three Battlestar Galactica DVD movies being made. According to Maureen Ryan's sources:

Executives are now doing number-crunching for these proposed films, and any deals for these movies are far from done. However, it would make sense to make more “Battlestar” TV movies while the show’s creative team and actors are still all in one place, as it were.

According to one source at the network, the talk about the films is just idle chatter “at this point.” But several other sources close to the show says there is good reason for “cautious optimism” about one to three future “Battlestar” films, which would get made this summer, if they get the green light.

“Nothing’s etched in stone yet,” one source said – creative decisions haven’t been fully fleshed out and the casts have not been locked in.

Maureen also reports that there will be a set of webisodes to bridge the gap between the airing of the first half of season four, and the last half of the season.

The current batch of episodes will finish up in early June. Production is underway on the last 10 episode of the show and the final scenes for the series finale will be shot in June. Production could get under way on the TV movies as early as July, and one source says the films could get the green light in the next two weeks or so.

At this point, it’s not known when those last 10 episodes of "Battlestar" will air. Informed sources say that a decision on that won’t get made until mid-summer, so my guess is that Sci Fi won’t run the final 10 episodes until 2009.

A little slip from Edward James Almos of course

Thought I share this little piece of information. Read on.

5/12/08: Concerning Kara's death and return from Edward Olmos: "Well, we've filmed something that started to explain it. And it's not an uplifting understanding. [Laughs.] I will say that. It's as dark as everything else. You sit there and you go, "Oh my God, you guys are sick!" They're pushing the envelope. And the network is allowing it." From Boston Globe Interview

What does that mean?! I wonder if Starbuck could be the first true hybrid instead of Hera, and that one of the cylons (either Leoben or Saul) is her dad. That is one of the few things that the writers could throw at me and make me feel physically ill. This could explain why she came back from the dead. Remember, no one has actually tried to kill Hera or Nicholas, the two known hybrids. Thus, we don't know whether or not the hybrids have some sort of resurrection abilities of their own.
Another possibility is that she was a successful product of the first cylon experiments (see Razor-particularly when the younger Adama is in the cylon lab and is trying to save the humans. One of the humans was a little girl with blonde hair that looks like a young Starbuck).
Here's my problem: While both theories might explain why Starbuck came back, neither one can address Starbuck's Raptor. If you guys have any ideas, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kara's Destiny, the Harbinger of Death

Harbinger of Death

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I just thought of an angle on Kara as the harbinger of death. In the past, whenever I heard about the 12 Greek Gods, I always assumed Hades as one of them. However, I just read that Hades isn't counted among the 12 OLYMPIAN gods: Zeus, Poseideon, Hera, Athena, Ares, Aphrodite, Artemis, Apollo, Hermes, Demeter, and Hestia.

Hades, the god of the Underworld, spent most of his time in the Underworld and is considered among the 12 Olympians. He's the THIRTEENTH Greek God.

From this standpoint Earth was separate from the other colonies just like Hades was separate from the other gods. By bringing everyone to Earth, Kara is the harbinger of death because she's bringing them to the world that corresponds to Hades.

posted by crood on the BSG forum

Prophecy Coming True

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Note: If there was already of a thread for discussion about this, sorry I didn't find it.

After I first read this, I thought it was major. How it would play out would be interesting. Let alone it was an interesting tid-bit that RDM left for us in Razor. I'm not going to over-analyse this, and there are not theories, except maybe a couple, but only as interpretations. He mentioned that things in Razor would set up things in season 4. This prophecy was a pretty big one.

Quote:

At last, they’ve come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of one splintering into many. And then, they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

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Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.

The thing about prophecies is that they can interpreted many different ways by different people. Most of the prophecy hadn't come to past at the timeline in Razor, but did come to pass as a view. The second half seems to be the fourth season.

Quote:

The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough.

- New Caprica
- The Cylon experiment with Human's didn't work

Quote:

Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves.

- Four of the Final Five, all now struggling with the revelation they are Cylons. We are seeing each of their reaction to this revelation and how their characters deal with it. All are dealing with it differently.

Quote:

The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her.

Here is where it gets juicy:
- Baltar finding Tori
- Saul finding Caprica-Six
- Leoben finding Kara

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Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.

- Saul and Caprica-Six
- Kara and Leoben
- The Colonials and the Rebel Cylons

Quote:

And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.

Here is where I throw in a bit of theory. Some say this is referring to Baltar. Back after Rapture and got back with the fleet, Adama did that weird torture thing. He was in darkness and clawed to light. Does this mean Baltar is the Final Cylon?

I have a hard time swollowing this because the sequence of time in the prophecy goes uncharacteristically out of order. I say, this part of the prophecy is yet to come.

The other inrepretation:
- Kara Thrace, her returnal, her seeking of "redemption" from the crew, mainly Adama and Roslin, in her mission to find her. She definietly howls a lot.
"YOUR GOING TO THE WRONG WAY!!!!"

Quote:

I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin.

- The Seven are the Significant Seven, who are machines.
- The sin part is about the Cylon's being perfect and that God created them perfect, but humanity was imperfect and need to be cured, by death. Well, they had a change of hard (Particularly the Cylon Heroes, Caprica-Six, and Galactica-Sharon). Instead, they tried to "fix" humans and see if they can work together. It was a weird experiment to try and use oppression, authority, and genocide to "fix" them. Well, New Caprica didn't work.

Quote:

But in time, it is sin that will consume them.

- This rebellion, the factions, all the death of Cylon souls. (Thanks to the One's)

Quote:

They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of one splintering into many.

This can go many ways:
- The Rebellion between the factions of Cylons
- The Three's (D'ana models) could be the "one" spintering
- Cavil's Cylon number is "One".
- First, it was the Three's splintering off
- Then it was the Cylon Rebellion. One's, Four's, and Five's, then Two's, Six's, and Eight's

Quote:

And then, they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

- Earth
- Has been promised to us since the beginning.
- All following this Angel Kara
- All following this angel Internal-Six, or Internal-Baltar, or some other being like the Leoben Kara seen in Maelstrom.

Quote:

Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end.

Here is the big one. Again, more theory with a bit of analyzing.
- The end of one thing, the beginning of another. The end of this way-of-life perhaps?

Quote:

She is the herald of the apocalypse[...]

- herald

a.) a person or thing that precedes or comes before; forerunner; harbinger: the returning swallows, those heralds of spring."

b. )a person or thing that proclaims or announces: A good newspaper should be a herald of truth.

- Apocalypse

a.) prophetic revelation, esp. concerning a cataclysm in which the forces of good permanently triumph over the forces of evil.

b.) any revelation or prophecy

.

c.) any universal or widespread destruction or disaster: the apocalypse of nuclear war. (I'm saying it's referring to the first two, not this one.)

- Apocalypse Etymology(History of the word/name): ORIGIN Old English , via Old French and ecclesiastical Latin from Greek apokalupsis, from apokaluptein ‘uncover, reveal,’ from apo- ‘un-’ + kaluptein ‘to cover.’
- See this is the interesting thing about the word. It's origins are more akin to a word like "Revelation". In Jeudo-Christian traditions, it's relating to the "end" prophesied in the bible.

Quote:

...the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.

- harbinger

a.) person who goes ahead and makes known the approach of another; herald.

b.) anything that foreshadows a future event; omen; sign:

- Well, there is a lot of "death" this season. lol
- I have no idea why they must not follow her.



So, there's my analyzing, theory, and interpretation. I'd be interested to see others interpretation, as well as interpretations as the season goes on. I'm imagining this was a subtle ploy by RDM. The storylines written match with this prophecy and can come off in different ways. I think that's the intention. There is different ways of looking at it, and a lot of them are true.

posted by OldManRivers on the BSG forum

Thoughts and scrambles of Faith

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If you guys are familiar with BSG Cast, Matt made a good connection in "Faith" with the #'s on the boat, in the dream. They say 12-11-10-9, then you don't see 7, I wonder. What if Kara is meant to give death to the cylon that they won't download and have more of a human death. The Hybrid mentioned, "the children of the one reborn, will find their own country. He thinks its heaven. He mentions that the Final Five will bring them to this 'country', place of dwelling. The numbers are on the side of the boat.

A theory I've been working on is that the cylon's will become human's or there is transformation going on. Just like the Hybrid said, I "the children of the one reborn will find their own country" the children, could this be the Final Five and the one reborn the Final Cylon?? Since they are trying to get to Earth and the F5 know where it is, then the country is Earth.

And maybe Kara is right all along that she will lead them ALL to thier end and that end is a beginning andthat Earth is like a form of heaven or something to that effect.

-post on BSG Forum @ 10:13 on May-14-2008

The Souls of Cylons, Ron Moore talks about the theology behind BSG

The Souls of Cylons
Ron Moore, executive producer of Battlestar Galactica, talks about the theology behind the Sci Fi Channel series.

Interview by Ellen Leventry

Ron Moore is producer of the Sci Fi Channel series "Battlestar Galactica," based on the 1978 TV show of the same name. He spoke with writer Ellen Leventry about religious themes in the original series and the reimagined show.

Glen Larson, creator and producer of the first show, is a member of the Church of Latter-day Saints. He based much of the first series on Mormon cosmology. Was there a concerted effort to move away from that in this version?

Not specifically, no. I looked at the original series as mythos and the way it dealt with religion as sort of a global sense. I was aware that Glen had used Mormon influences and how he had created the cosmology, but I'm not that familiar with Mormon belief or practice. To me there were things that were sort of obvious, the twelve tribes, the twelve tribes of Israel.

At the beginning, I sort of assumed that the Colonials--the human beings--would have a belief system, probably polytheistic. In the original, the "Lords of Kobol" were referred to several times. But it wasn't until the development of the miniseries when I sort of randomly gave the Cylons a belief system. I was creating the characters and working on some lines for Number 6 and I thought it was interesting if she professed a belief in a single God. I had really given her a belief in a singular God almost by accident.

I compared that with the polytheistic religion of the colonials, I started to realize that an interesting pattern was developing--the Cylons believing in the one true God and the Colonials having an older, multifaceted system of deities that was obviously patterned on the Romans. As the series went on, I started to believe that the Cylon belief was going to be a guiding principal.

People are really noticing the dichotomy between the Pagan and the monotheistic themes. It strongly parallels the rise of Christianity and the demise of paganism in the Western world.

That's true. There was a book that I started reading about the one god driving out the many--the rise of monotheism in the Western world and how it came to displace pagan religion. Those themes were interesting to play with in the show: The dynamic whereby the pagan religious practices tended to be tolerant and tended to allow monotheistic beliefs within their own culture.

And then there came this came this notion of this outside monotheistic belief, of the one true God that could not tolerate others, that started to drive out pagan worship and that fit very nicely with what we were doing with the show. Because you had this apocalyptic moment of genocide which kicked off the entire series, of this Cylon culture that has this belief system in one god that is literally wiping out this pagan belief system and then is pursuing them across the galaxy. There was a certain resonance in history.

Some viewers say the show stereotypes fundamentalist Christians as kind of robotic, while others are saying, "This is great...pagans are finally the good guys!"

The parallels between the Cylon beliefs and fundamentalist Christian beliefs, yeah, there are certain aspects of it there, but there's also the roots of the drama, also contains things such as Al Qaeda's use of its religious practice to justify what it does. That's part of who the Cylons are too, they aren't just really stalking horses for fundamentalist Christianity.

There also seem to be elements of Eastern religions in the show with Leoben Conoy, another Cylon, talking about consciousness and reincarnation. Does each of the different models of Cylons represent a different religious point of view?

I think that's true. Part of the idea of Leobon was to separate it from easy stereotypes of Christian beliefs. There wasn't really a hierarchical church, there wasn't an easy notion of heaven and hell. Leoben was starting to talk about things that were more Buddhist--consciousness, enlightenment and reincarnation. I thought it was interesting to marry those notions to the idea of one deity.

The Cylon named Number 6 seems to be suffering from a Madonna/whore complex, talking about sin and redemption while leading Dr. Baltar to bed.

Part of that is who those characters are within the Cylon pantheon. We've said that there are only 12 models of Cylons, because the Cylons look at humanity and say there's only 12 different kinds of human, when you get right down to it.

Six's belief system and the way she practices it is very specific to her character and her model of Cylon. She is sort of a Madonna/whore made real and has a very strict, if odd, sense of God and what God wants. Leobon is more of a thinker and has a more esoteric idea of how things work in the universe. But they both proceed from the same root, that they both believe there is one God who sets everything in motion and has a real sort of impact and interaction with the universe.

Why focus so heavily on the Cylon religion and not the human beliefs?

Because the Cylons are the engine that drives the entire series. The Cylons come back with a vengeance and have this belief system in place.

The interest in the Cylons is this notion of "why are our enemies doing this? What is it they believe, why would anybody behave like this, what kind of monsters would carry out something like that?" It's not just that they're space Nazis, it's that they have an intricate belief system that leads them to this horrific answer.

The show is paralleling today's political climate and reflecting world events...

Absolutely. The show is really supposed to be about our society and political structure, the conversations we have today in the culture. Hopefully, the show is able to examine those things from a different perspective without making it as simple as the Cylons are Al Qaeda and Laura Roslin (the President) is George Bush. I don't think the show offers you easy answers on why Al Qaeda does what Al Qaeda does, but I think it gives you an easy reference into how an entire culture, or entire group of people can believe something so fervently that seems so unfathomable at the beginning.

Many of the episodes deal with religion very heavily. Why do you think people will watch a sci-fi show that involves a lot of religious themes, but might not watch a "Joan of Arcadia" type show?

I think it's like a lot of things in science fiction. People are a lot more comfortable allowing us to go into areas that are controversial or charged. People put in this automatic filter. It's why the original Star Trek series was able to deal with things like racism in the middle of the 1960's on primetime television.

It's all pretend and it gives people permission not to get pissed off.

Do your own religious views shape the story lines?

I'm an Irish Catholic, not practicing. It probably just reflects my interest in my movement from Catholicism to atheism to agnosticism to interest in Eastern religions. I think the show is a reflection of my acknowledgement that faith and religion are a part of the human experience, even if I'm not quite clear on exactly what it all means and what I truly believe. The most direct reflection of me in the show is this idea that when the Cylons became self-aware, when they became sentient, when they became people, they began to ask themselves the existential questions: "Why am I here? What is this all about? Is this all that I am? Is there something more?"

My view is that that's fundamental to a thinking person. And that inevitably leads you to questions of faith and religion and "what will happen to me when I die?"

In "Galactica 1980," we actually meet the "Imperious Commander" of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you'd be disappointed. They're in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It's a fundamental element of their faith.

There's been a lot of chatter on the message boards about the spiritual character of the show, with many people saying they enjoy it.

It's fun to do a science-fiction series that isn't just dealing with secular matters. I'm really glad people are responding to it.

Where the Final Five grown?

Neakal
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Rook

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 71

In all honesty, I don't see a huge problem with Tigh. The Final Five have been established to exist outside the mainstream Cylon Culture and knowledge. Furthermore, episodes like Rapture and Torn imply heavily that either a certain form of Cylon, or the Final Five existed long before the rest. The way Temple of Five functions, its connection to the Final Five, the fact that Simon in Torn says that the Humanoid Cylon genepool comes from the same source which is not the genes from Colonials as they had the immunity to the Virus for some 600 years all seem to point out that the FF could exist without making Tigh's memories a fake.

I remember someone speculating that the Significant Seven ressurect and the Final Five reincarnate across different lives although I am not sure how this can justify the Cylon abilities the FF have.

My personal belief is that the Final Five, much like the Significant Seven, were probably created/birthed/grown in a lab or sorts. This particular lab, however, has some kind of connection to the "All Along the Watchtower" as Anders and Tyrol describe it being like a childhood memory. I believe they heard the song there and it was imprinted to their subconscious in the process. The connection to All Along the Watchtower can imply that the lab was on Earth. This contradicts with the style of the song which was specifically intended to be Colonial-style. However, it does fit with the possibility that the Cylon DNA came a non-Colonial source.

Maybe the "Third Party" placed the Final Five into the Colonies prior/during the Cylon War. During this period, the Mechanical Cylons were trying (and failing) their own experiments with humans. Perhaps after their banishment, the "Third Party" contacted the Mechanical Cylons (Thus making the third party the "Original Programmers"), gave them the genetic samples that would become the Significant Seven and thaught them how to create the Significant Seven while making sure that various Final Five-related programming was put in place in order to make the S7 both susceptible to the F5(The raider reaction could be an example) and make them avoid researching the Final Five to the point they would not consciously (Caprica-Six' and Leoben's comments can imply they still had something on a subconscious level) realise they are Cylons if they faced one.

I know it is not a sustainable theory and its a very rough one but I believe the situation with the Final Five is somewhere along that line although I can't say how or why the Third Party has done such a thing though.

I like the idea that the lab was on Earth! VERy VERY cool!

A 13th Cylon to Come?

"As my own existence comes to a close, only to begin anew, in ways uncertain." - First Hyrbid

In the movie Razor the First Hybrid gave a vague prophesy that I have quoted above. I have been thinking about this for a while and after reading some threads about possible plotlines for a possible "Number Thirteen" I think I know where they might stick a surprise sometime in Season Four.

It was mentioned in Razor that the Hybrids used to be human beings and RDM has told us that they are "Model 0" and an important bridge between the Humans and the Humanoid Cylons.

Now picture for a moment that the First Hybrid manages to cross that bridge and be recreated as a pure Humanoid Cylon, as Number Thirteen.

How this would occur is still hazy but it is clear that the Fleet and the Cylons are being manipulated by outside forces (there are hints that they are Divine but could also be the unknown Final Cylon as well) and whatever these forces are could introduce this Number Thirteen into the Fleet (or the Cylon Basestars) in a manner that could take the plot towards it's conclusion.

I know this is speculative but could it happen (within reason)?


WOW great depth to this theory. And I feel bad for saying its a theory when its fact. It was the best. I thought it has complete releevance to the nature and why the hybrids exist to begin with. Very very good reasearch on it. This is greatible.

The Five Priests of the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken

posted by:ouiouiwewe

So, we have now been familiarized with 3 of the 5 priests (Anders still hadn't had too much screen time). It seems as if each of them are slowly working down towards different paths and one has already found a way to God. Considering the nature of the Final 5 and what we've witnessed, it appears as if each of them will be finding a different purpose in bowing down to God:

Tory - Worship on the basis of perfection
Tyrol - Worship on the basis of bitterness
Tigh - Worship on the basis of penance

If we are to extrapolate this to Anders (who has not diverged greatly from his original nature) and Lee (who is a likely candidate as a final five), then we have:

Anders - Worship on the basis of love
Lee - Worship on the basis of idealism (also applies to Gaeta)


Interesting naming for the priests or the Final Five. This works with the Lee being the 5th. I like this theory, but I can't get around Kara being the Fifth and Baltar being the one that cannot be named; it seems fitting for his character. We'll have to see!

A theory on the 1st Cylon War / Hybrid Develp.

by: 1Nivek1


I think it's possible that the F5 existence was revealed to the Cylons by the 1st hybrid. That they were among the humans, and were "fundamentally different" then the others (the S7 probably existed in a "development" stage). Thus, the war was called off as this would cause a huge dilemma.

Then as the S7 built copies of themselves, and consolidated power...they took over the fleet. This forced the 1st hybrid into exile, and a few raiders who followed him protected him. Then the S7 refused any more talk of the F5, and restarted the war with humans.

It also explains how Leoben knew all he did. It would also imply that Kara really will be "the harbinger of death", and it wasn't just Cylon BS. Clearly, that specific Leoben studied the 1st hybrid carefully. It would also explain his fascination with Kara. That he wants to bring death.

Perhaps this was obvious, but it just occurred to me...

Last edited by 1Nivek1; May 1st, 2008 at 11:30 AM.



I thought this was a very VERY cool theory well thought out and it could be the explanation that will come about. It seems the most logical of all the one's I've heard